RE: '95 Discovery w/ 147,00m Good Buy or Not?
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RE: '95 Discovery w/ 147,00m Good Buy or Not? - 1/29/2005 8:16:08 PM
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Bait
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Joined: 1/13/2005
From: USA
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Wow Lightning, that is quite A biased History lesson. The fact is Rover cars was losing tons of money before BMW bought them. They bleed BMW so much that they almost made BMW as A whole lose money. Rover cars was losing around A billion Euros per year ! The Land Rover line was profitable. Despite the millions BMW poured into the Company for modernizing. BMW builds quality vehicles and is very profitable. To say that BMW caused this is inaccurate. Check out this link; http://www.automobear.com/PDFs/(AutomoBear)%20The%20BMW-Rover%20story.pdf
The V-8 was used in almost all USA vehicles up to 2005. Exceptions ; The Freelander had the Rover petrol dual overhead cam V-6 in 2002-present. The New Range Rover had the BMW dual overhead cam V-8 petrol in 2004-2005.
The 2005 LR3 has a modified Jaguar dual overhead cam V-8. The New Range will be on A LR3 ( Discovery 3 ) platform next year and have A Ford/Jaguar engine.
I think Cosworth is A aftermarket Company like Shelby that modifies Factory vehicles before sale ? Mopar is kind of A nickname given to any Chrysler Corporation built vehicle, Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler. Sort of like calling A Land Rover A " Rover ". Hope that makes sense ?
Bait
< Message edited by Bait -- 1/30/2005 7:52:16 PM >
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RE: '95 Discovery w/ 147,00m Good Buy or Not? - 1/29/2005 11:35:19 PM
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Bene
Posts: 345
Joined: 1/25/2005
From: Santa Maria, CA - hopefuly not for long.
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Mopar is the Chrysler Corp's aftermarket parts division. 'back in the day' i think you could get the good stuff like exaust systems, carbs and the like. these days its mostly just bug deflectors, running boards, shiny wheels that kind of crap. i think you can even get Jeep parts from Mopar. but Jeeps still arent refered to as Mopars because they weren't Mopars in the 70's, back when Mopars were given the Mopar nickname... yeah, thats about the extent of my knowledge
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1994 Disco I
Owning a Land Rover is like dating a super model. Sure she has expenive tastes, complains a lot, and requires constant attention...
but damn...
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RE: '95 Discovery w/ 147,00m Good Buy or Not? - 1/30/2005 4:15:32 AM
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Lighting90
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From: United Kingdom
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Well Bait, your link doesn't work, so I can not comment on the story. Though Rover was not loosing shed loads of money when BMW took them over, but BMW would like others to think that. British Areospace, the owners of Rover that sold it to BMW had the company in profit at the time. Hence why BMW paid so much money for it, unlike when BMW sold the company, when it was loosing huge amounts of money. It still is loosing money, though it has to be said a lot less than when under BMW's ownership, and maybe the Rover car company will still dissappear, as previously the profitable side of the group was Land Rover. Figures can be displayed what ever you want it to show, and I am sure BMW will always show that the Rover car company on it's own was making a loss, even under the British Areospace ownership. After all, they could not admit that they screwed up could they.
It is widely held in the UK that the take over by BMW was a bad thing, even when the announcement happend in 1994, it was commented that it seemed strange that BMW should take over a company that were it's rivals, unlike the take overs that Ford, VW etc did, where they took over companies which filled in the various sectors of the car industry for their brands.
The only thing the experts at the time in 1994 could see happening was that BMW wanted Land Rover and the technology that it would bring to BMW.
And yes my view may be bais, but I couldn't give a stuff, as at the end of the day, I am proud to be an owner of both of Rover Cars and of Land Rovers. Both built in Britian, by british workers..
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RE: '95 Discovery w/ 147,00m Good Buy or Not? - 1/30/2005 8:32:13 PM
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Bait
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From: USA
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Oops, fixed the link for others to view. Lightning, I hope I did not upset you that was not my intention. That's the one of the bad things about the Internet, you can't convey emotions. I will never intentionally post anything to piss anyone off.
You gave your opinion and I merely tried to offer an opposing view so that the viewers of this forum can make up their own mind. quote:
Figures can be displayed what ever you want it to show, and I am sure BMW will always show that the Rover car company on it's own was making a loss, even under the British Areospace ownership. After all, they could not admit that they screwed up could they.
You obviously already have and it is your right to do so.
I agree with you that BMW's take over was A bad thing but probably for different reasons. I'll also say that I think Ford's take over of Land Rover is even worse ! Ford is A ruthless, greedy, USA Corp that cares about nothing but short term profit. The will ruin the Land Rover name and heritage. Just as they have done to Jaguar. But that is just 'my opinion'.
Everyone should be proud of their vehicles, no matter were or who builds them.
Cheers, Bait.
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RE: '95 Discovery w/ 147,00m Good Buy or Not? - 1/31/2005 2:14:04 AM
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Lighting90
Posts: 443
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From: United Kingdom
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It is okay Bait, I like a good discussion.. the article in question is very bais towards BMW, and the way the figures change from £ to $ makes it hard to compare it's way through.
The £900 million debt they talk about also includes the money BMW had to pay to Honda for it's 20% share of the company. The company was at the time running in profit, and was paying it's debts. Something not mentioned in the article.
One of the main issues that the press jumped on in the UK at least was the sudden rise in prices of the Rover cars under BMW ownership, which resulted in reduced sales in the end, as you could buy a VW cheaper.
Yep, have to agree though with the article about Longbridge, though the tatics used by BMW to try and increase production were not thought out, threatening the staff with closure was not the way to do it.
The article also states about during the sale that Rover did not take on the design dept, well actually, BMW would not sell it to them, the deal was either the design dept or the MG name, and they took the MG name..
When BMW started selling, Land Rover went to Ford, Powertrain went to another manufacturer (resulting in Rover having to buy it's engines from this other company) and BMW kept the cowly works which had been completely redeveloped, and where mini production is today. The problem is, all the figures show how much money was put into the Rover Company by BMW, but BMW kept so much of the assets in the end, and made money from others. Yet these figures are not taken off the end figure they claim to have spent on Rover.
They also don't state that BMW also paid a huge amount of money for the development of the Range Rover P38, will try and find the figure.. as I understand it is still the most any company has invested in a single model range.
The simple fact is, BMW tried to do too much too quickly with the Rover group, and paid for it in the end.
_____________________________
Land Rover Series One 1952
Land Rover Defender 200TDi 1991
www.****
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RE: '95 Discovery w/ 147,00m Good Buy or Not? - 1/31/2005 10:51:37 PM
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Bait
Posts: 631
Joined: 1/13/2005
From: USA
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Lightning,
Glad you like good discussion, me too !
I won't say the article isn't BMW biased. Just offering an opposing view, in all fairness  I didn't know about the 20% Honda share. Guess that explains the Honda CRV body on the Freelander, interesting.
Yeah, I have also heard 'the most amount of money ever spent on product development ' or what ever. P38A came out in 1996 and was A purely Rover design. What you are referring to is the L322 the BMW ' most amount ever ' design. What is so ironic about this is Ford is totally doing away with the new chassis, engine, and powertrain for the 2006' Model year. It will be on an LR3 chassis, Jag engine, Ford/Jag powertrain. The most amount of money ever spent on A vehicle only produced for three years ???
quote:
The simple fact is, BMW tried to do too much too quickly with the Rover group, and paid for it in the end. Agreed !
I have heard rumor that Ford put Solihol's AL V-8 engine production machines/castings on E-bay and got big $$ for it. Heard anything about this ?
Wow ! We have really highjacked this thread ! Lightning, should you move it to a new thread ? Land Rover History or the likes ?
Bait
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